The Gig List (Part 4 - 2015 to 2018)

After speaking to my cousin (who isn't my cousin but is related in some way and I cannot be asked to work out the exact correct link) was discussing Iron Maiden concerts and some Stranglers concerts as well I thought this again would be a good space to put down another list. Gig's so from the old grey matter I put together a list of bands that I remember seeing, then patched together dates and venues to complete the list below. Now somewhere I have some reviews I've typed up for a few of those and will see if I can dig any of them out and include them under the gig list below. I am sure many of you have been to more gigs and to be honest I know I have too as there are definitely more Stranglers gigs that I've been too that I have listed here but cannot find a reference point for them so happy to take advice if anyone was with me and I have dates and information incorrect. For example for years I have said that my first Maiden concert was in 1992 and it wasn't it was in 1993!! So what do I know? Very little it appears. Anyway there are some great memories here and I will try and share some when they come back to me. As for this list, it is a work in progress - Enjoy!!

The Sisters of Mercy - 18th October 2015

Roundhouse, Camden, London

Could have been somewhere else

OK I am going to fess up here and say I cannot remember where this gig was I cannot remember seeing any support band but from memory I thought it was Brixton or maybe Shepherd’s Bush Empire. But I was invited to go along and tickets were reasonable and I knew a few of their songs but not very well but I could wear a black t-shirt and blag it no problem. I went with friends who were more into them and I remember hearing two ticket touts outside the train stations moaning about being done.

One says "I just got stiffed by one of these blokes for a ticket,"

"No way, what did he look like?"

"Tall, long black hair wearing a Sisters of Mercy T-shirt!"

"Yep. I saw the guy, I'll keep my eye out for him!"

I kid you not this actually happened.

During the gig I spent the entire show waiting for them to burst into She Sells Sanctuary but they never did. It was in the middle of the gig that I realised that they never sung She Sells Sanctuary that would be The Cult and I had completely the wrong band. Show was alright but I think there were only ever two members of the band on stage throughout the show. Strange night had a few beers but not much to write home about

Steve'n'Seagulls - 15th November 2016

Bush Hall, London

*No Support*

This one will need a bit of an introduction as I stumbled on a video on YouTube of these boys playing the AC/DC cover of Thunderstruck. I suggest you check it out as it is an awesome cover. They play a bluegrass, farmer style of music with banjos and various instruments. Following that vid, I fell in love with them and brought the album and the follow up one. They basically cover rock and metal tracks and play them in a blue-grass way, from Finland and knowing that English is not their first language it takes some real talent to produce the quality and timing that these boys do. To then discover that they were touring, and my boss (at the time) said he was up for so off we went to the Bush Hall in Shepherds Bush in London. As part of the ticket, we got a discount off the restaurant next door so we had a steak dinner with plenty of booze and we walked into what looked like a meeting room of a civic centre converted into a concert hall by putting some metal boxes down one end of the room. Not knowing to expect I looked at the vender selling merchandise and cd’s and then realised that he was a member of the band. It was at this point I realised that all the band were wandering around and sharing the selling duties whilst drinking beers and preparing the stage. Having recently purchased their new album I knew the first track from the new album was an Iron Maiden cover of Aces High which had a big into and build up to the start of the track.

There we were stood in anticipation of the gig starting. Would there be a support band? The answer there was no! Meaning the guys that were just sat at the table selling CD’s and hats were now taking to the stage.

The wait was nearly over!

The lights dimmed and they squeezed onto the stage. The intros to Aces High began. The slow and steady moved to a euphoric nature with the anthem growing in sound and anticipation. The final crescendo was reach and they all paused ready to launch, followed by silence. Nothing! They paused and tried again as the backing track finished and there was still nothing. A few crouched down and started playing around with cables. Tried the instruments and nothing.

"We are professionals!"

OK well this is interesting. More silence. More playing with cables. Another attempt and nothing. More adjusting, the microphones worked as they stood and reminded the audience that “they were professionals!” unplugging cables, plugging some more in. Quick test, nope!

“Bear with us we will begin a little later than planned but we are getting there.”

They stood and another attempt.

The bass was alive!!

They could actually start and they didn’t bother with the intro at all this time they just burst into one of the best covers of Aces High (Iron Maiden) I have ever heard live. They moved swiftly into the next track which was a cover of Guns N’ Roses’ You Could Be Mine. Which again was expertly despatched.

Now we are cooking...

They covered an AC/DC track next with It's a Long Way to the Top before returning to Maiden with The Trooper. The Offspring was next with their version of Self Esteem. Then their great cover of Megadeth’s Symphony of Destruction.

Snippet from Symphony of Destruction. (told you they rock)

The gig itself was weird in a good way with some members of the audience dancing whilst dressed as farmers with dungarees and hats whilst others were having a party all to themselves, but I can tell you for me it was fantastic. Iron Maiden returned followed by a Foo Fighters covers were next with the track (videoed) of The Trooper and The Pretender.

The Trooper!!!

A track that I had not heard the original version was next as I was never that much into Pantera so hearing their version of Cemetery Gates was the best version I’d ever heard so this live was fantastic. AC/DC again with Steve’s version of You Shook Me All Night Long which is a track I liked anyway so hearing it live was great from these boys. They played a track that they had written themselves called Fill Up the Tank.

In full swing here.

They were back covering other bands from here to the end starting with Metallica’s True. I have to say that I love their version of Gary Moore’s Out in the Fields which they played to perfection before they slowed it right down with G’n’R’s November Rain. In fact, half the band left the stage for this track before they returned with Deep Purple’ s Burn. The last two tracks saw them cover AC/DC and Metallica. They ramped up the speed and the energy for the big finish with two racing tunes namely the famous Thunderstruck (just as I side note this video has been viewed 124 million’s times on YouTube) which was followed by the thrash metal track of Seek & Destroy.

The intro to Seek and Destroy.

After a brief recovery period they were back for a single encore you could say they never really left the stage, but the final song went on forever and was dragged out exactly to the point when they had to close the doors and kick everyone out.

Covering Mars Bonfire classic Born to Be Wild. It was a suitable conclusion to a surprisingly great gig in possibly the smallest venue I’d seen any gig. I’d been in pubs bigger than this, but a fantastic night was over and this drunken fool had to navigate the London transport network to get home. Sat on the train I remember thinking one thing. I must check out more websites and see if I can go to some other gigs and you know what I would actually go and see them again.

Later that week, I checked the website and discovered that after going to France, Germany, and Holland they were back in the UK in March, oh really…

Steve 'n' Seagulls - 28th March 2017

The Fleece, Bristol

Double Crush Syndrome

Well, here I am back at a “Steve‘n’Seagulls” concert, this time with my Paradise Lost buddy who I wanted to introduce to the live action that is Blue Grass Rock. They had a support band this time which I was not sure was a good fit. Double Crush Syndrome a band that I had never heard of before and one that sounded punky but was playful and downright weird. Here they are onstage (ok its blurry!)

Atmospheric Image of Double Crush Syndrome

At the time I though Double Crush Syndrome were one of the weirdest bands I’d seen but you know what, after the gig they have grown on me and I quite like listening to them. They were pretty good I would recommend typing their name and any of the tracks listed below (maybe not the monkey song) but the rest are pretty good. Ok They covered the Judas Priest track to finish so that may direct somewhere else. The rest are not bad you my think they are generic but they give 120% to their live shows and as a gig goer you really cannot ask for more could you.

All three of them on stage

They opened their set with Gimme Everything which is a good track. If you search Yeah! Pain! On YouTube you may get taken to a backpain specialist but they do have a song called Yeah! Pain! Their next song was a good one called Die for Rock N' Roll and another good’un with Can't You Be Like Everyone Else. The silly one was up next and it fits them, it just doesn’t fit with the rest of the tracks here with I Wanna Be Your Monkey.

DCS's Drummer Markus Herzog

The last of their tracks was On Top of Mount Whatevererst which is another solid number but they finished with a cover of Breaking the Law by Judas Priest which rounded off the set.

The boys took to the stage for what was to be a full force, full speed show that had me and the sparse crowd rocking. Opening with a cover of The Offsprings Self Esteem you could tell instantly that this show was going to be rocking. {I am not going to label all of the covers this time but I will list the tracks at the end of this review with the "bands" in brackets for you.}

Hiltunen in full swing

Following the punk introduction they went with metal hair band with Paradise City and the tour titled track of It's a Long Way to the Top (If You Wanna Rock 'n' Roll). Staying with similar bands they stuck with metal as they ramped up the volume and the rock covering You Could Be Mine, The Trooper, Sad but True, Burn, and Black Dog.

Moving onto modern tracks they sang a great version of The Pretender before a long introduction of one of their own tracks namely Fill Up the Tank. Everyone was up for it and the gig was really pumping at that stage and then they moved into singing the album opening track of Aces High but mid-way through someone joined them onstage. He was not welcome and Remmel stopped the show and I think was more shocked than anything else. All these years later I found that I had actually recorded part of it.

Stage invader... Dived off the stage and got injured on the hard concrete floor.

Sorry for the wrong angle but what you can see is that chap dived off the stage over a cage type barrier onto a solid floor. This must of hurt and he was down there for a while holding up the gig. He eventually left and the gig continued with Over the Hills and Far Away.

Over The Hills And Far Away.

I thought they were affected by him but having watched above you can make your own mind up. After the ‘lets just get through it’ track they got themselves back together and ramped up with Symphony of Destruction, which I recorded the intro to:

Symphony Of Destruction

I missed the legendary introduction to Thunderstruck which narked me a bit but they play it so well that I really enjoyed it but just couldn’t show it to you now. Just take my word for it – it rocked. They Dramatically slowed everything down with November Rain before they brought the show towards its conclusion with You Shook Me All Night Long.

You Shook Me All Night Long

Finishing the show they full on belted out Seek & Destroy before possibly the longest ever version of Born to Be Wild with Hiltunen playing the flute after spending what felt like 20 minutes of him putting it together and then getting it to a point where he could actually play it. It didn’t matter as they rounded off a great night and I got my hand stamped so I could come back later once everything was closed and no one was there to open the door for me.

I would add that I was going to say that if you got chance to see them take it. Which I won’t change but my favourite band member Pukki left in May of 2019 and the singing drummer (Puikkonen) left as well just a few months after Pukki so I don’t know what the new boys are like. I guess at some point I will find out and then I’ll be able to let you know as well.

Self Esteem (The Offspring), Paradise City (Guns N’ Roses), It's a Long Way to the Top (AC/DC), You Could Be Mine (Guns N’ Roses), The Trooper (Iron Maiden), Sad but True (Metallica), Burn (Deep Purple), Black Dog (Led Zeppelin), The Pretender (Foo Fighters), Aces High (Iron Maiden), Over The Hills and Far Away (Gary Moore), Symphony of Destruction (Megadeth), Thunderstruck (AC/DC), November Rain (Guns N’ Roses), You Shook Me All Night Long (AC/DC), Seek & Destroy (Metallica) & Born to Be Wild (Mars Bonfire).

Stone Sour - 4th December 2017

Brixton Academy, London

The Pretty Reckless

I was heading back to the Brixton Academy again but this time I was going there alone but I knew Wayne was heading that way as well. I will relay the journey as there was a story there. I also got royally screwed by a ticket tout on route to the gig but there you go the ticket I had I had paid full price for and gained in the honest and truthful way. I go with head held high.

I arrive at the train station early so head into the pub and start on the beers (well cider). Leaving there I cross the road and join the others stood on the platform of Bracknell train station. I wonder if anyone else is making this journey and check out the other travellers to see if any are wearing Stone Sour T-Shirts. Nope. None. I do spot a couple of lads wearing another band’s shirt and just a shirt, but the fact I clocked them just stuck in my head. Having always travelled to Brixton on the tube a train route was new to me. Having to change I get off at Virginia Waters and I see those boys again, heading to the same platform as me again.

We head on the same train again and I get off at Brixton train station and low and behold there they are again. Leaving the station, I know its left but they turn right so I assume they are going somewhere else. After walking for 10 minutes, I realised I’d come out of a different exit and was in fact walking in completely the wrong direction. Whoops turning around and stopping at a few pubs I have a few more beers on route to the venue. Not seeing them before the gig or during. Unusually for me I take up a position near the back of the venue.

The support act is on singing Follow Me Down and Since You're Gone but I didn’t hear it as I was still drinking. They had moved onto Oh My God before I was really paying attention. I heard them sing Hangman before I decided to head back to the bar. They sung Prisoner, Make Me Wanna Die, Sweet Things, and Heaven Knows. Ok so I go back to face the stage with a pint in each hand and join three men drinking in equal numbers to me and started chatting as Pretty Reckless started Going to Hell at this point I realised that they were ok. The lead was a blonde beauty and I instantly labelled them as eye candy as the music wasn’t bad but not really my thing. They concluded their set with Take Me Down which again was fairly good.

Stone Sour was next, and I was ready for them. I think. For me I fell in love with these many years ago and without realising it I had not kept up with them and their new stuff maybe a little lost on me. These concerns were increased as they took to the stage and belted out Taipei Person/Allah Tea a song that I wasn’t sure of. They then added a heavy track of Knievel Has Landed and again I was feeling a little lost. This changed in a second as they played one of my favourites Made of Scars. It’s a great track and gets a Myers recommends sticker. Here’s a blurry picture of the stage.

Stone Sour Stage.

The next track was the much more shouty Reborn and the calmer (well sort of) Say You'll Haunt Me another track that I love but had to grow on me was next and it is fantastic. It’s called 30/30-150 and causes arguments about its meaning from Nuclear Wars, Church, and the bible to Corey’s measurements when he was at high school. I see it as putting two middle fingers up to the establishments and claiming that no one is above any other and we should all respect each other. Even if I must shout to get it! I don’t care either way really, I just love the song.

This is really the gig going on not a blurry picture of a funfair at night.

The next two tracks for me where new good but I didn’t know them that well so kind of passed me by they were Hesitate and Tired. At some point Wayne & Jai had arrived which took me away from my new drinking buddies. It also proved the fact that it is awfully hard to have a conversation when in the middle of a metal concert. Wayne did manage to point out that the eye candy I mentioned early (the support band) was the ac tress that played Cindy-Lou in the Jim Carrey movie The Grinch. I swore lots and then fully realised how old I was and that that movie will never be the same for me again.

Here its much clearer!

With my newfound confidence of having some buddies around me, I thought it time to stop the sneaky pictures and go for some videos. I was also hoping that they would play Through Glass at some stage also. Ensuring that no-one’s view was obscured the mobiles video was switched on. The next track was Rose Red Violent Blue (This Song Is Dumb & So Am I) which I managed to catch part of it. It’s a good solid number and I was pleased to hear it live.

Rose Red Violent Blue (This Song Is Dumb and So Am I)

They moved into the meat of the gig with Do Me a Favor (yes - spellchecker it is an American song) and Cold Reader. They then ramped it up with the very shouty Get Inside which is a track I love and it’s a good track to get the anger out by sitting in the car singing (well shouting along). Go on try it! It really works. Here is another snippet.

Get Inside [Bad Language Warning in this Video]

The video was glued to my hand now as I recorded the next track (a bit of) as well with Song #3 a real meaty singer’s song just to show what talents Corey has. Here you go

Song #3

I like the entire population of the Brixton Academy at that time joined Corey singing Through Glass and there was no way I was going to cut anything out of the recording of this one. It is such a great tune and worthy of so much more praise that it gets but for me the biggest honour is putting the whole thing here for you to share the love.

Through Glass (the head, the tail the whole damn thing!)

That’s it the camera recording was done and there were just photos to follow now. They finished the set with a Black Sabbath cover of Children of the Grave. That was it done for the day, and it was all over.

Well not quite as there was an encore, and it had the all the “Whacky waving inflatable arm flailing tube men!” you could want as a conclusion. Returning to the stage with Gone Sovereign they moved on with Absolute Zero before bringing the whole thing to a fantastic conclusion with the “Whacky waving inflatable arm flailing tube men!” accompanying them to the great track of Fabuless. This prompted the return of the phone and plenty of pictures which are shown below.

Fabuless Pic #1

Fabuless Pic #2

Fabuless Pic #3

We bundled out of the gig and walked back to the stations W&J heading into the tube station I headed back to the train station. Guess who I spotted. Those boys!! I’d had enough booze to know that this trip could be a confusing one. They headed for the wrong platform, and I followed. They realise their mistake and head back down the stairs and I follow. Back up the stairs on the other side and we were back on the platform which was surprisingly not that full. The booze in my realised that this may become a problem so the honest person in me kicked in. I walked over to them and said.

“Evening, gents where you at the Stone Sour gig?”

“Yep!” With a look of confusion and concern

“I am really sorry to disturb but can I ask you a bit of a weird question?”

“Yep, what is it?”

“I thought I saw you earlier today at Bracknell Station are heading back there now?”

“Well, I am he isn’t but yes we are going that way.”

“Great, just so you know that it may appear a bit weird, but I am going to follow you guys!”

“What?”

“Well, two things firstly I need to get back to Bracknell tonight and secondly I have had some drink and I am not entirely sure I am going to remember or find the right route. So, I am going to follow you. You don’t need to speak to me or even acknowledge that I am there, but I will be following you!”

“OK Fine”

I leave them.

They get off at Virginia Waters I follow. A train comes in. I step forward, they don’t. Oh, I watch them for a trick they look over and shake their heads. Stand down. The train comes in, they get on. I follow. End up sitting opposite them. Then I give up and started talking to them and one of them not alone was in the industry as me, but we were effectively working together. I was at the Local Authority, and he was at a school in the same area that I look after so we end up chatting all the way back to station and ignore his mate who gets off the station before. Ok enough non-music stuff here I shall move on.

Stone Sour - 18th June 2018

The Roundhouse, London

Nothing More

Moving to a much smaller venue Stone Sour was back in the UK and playing a gig for me. The support act was a band was called Nothing More who I had never heard of before the gig. Unfortunately, I didn’t see them this time either so I cannot say anything good or bad about them. They played Do You Really Want It?, Don't Stop, Bass Solo, Go to War, Fadein/Fadeout, Jenny, Ocean Floor, This Is the Time, and First of the Year.

Taking to the stage to the Ottis Redding track of I Can’t Turn You Loose which to the rest of us is the turn that the Blues Brothers enter the stage to in the movie. They are ready and ready to go. Ripping into Whiplash Pants we were off which was rapidly chased by Absolute Zero.

Harping back to the previous gig they burst into Knievel Has Landed followed by Say You'll Haunt Me. Surprisingly I don’t appear to have any photos from this gig which I am now searching around various different recording. I check old files here and there and everywhere I can think of and I have given up trying. Was I actually at this gig and I am pretty sure I was and I think Wayne was there with me and it was fantastic night. Meaning when they burst into one of my favourite tracks of 30/30-150 I am loving it. When they follow a rocking out tune like 30/30-150 with a solo from Corey Taylor playing Bother.

They added the two middle ones as I am going to call them as I give them an OK level from my love and devotion for them in Tired and Cold Reader. If those two are the clunking and clacking of the roller coaster as it slowly drags you to the highest point of the ride, then you know the fantastically fun part was just about to begin. With track after track of great tunes all the way to the end. Namely the shouty Get Inside followed by the sublime Rose Red Violent Blue (This Song Is Dumb & So Am I). Followed by one of my Stone Sour favourites of Made of Scars along with Song #3 and the fun was still coming but the gig was nearly done.

As I am typing this I have just found the only video I could find that I recorded for this gig and its of the final track of the gig - Through Glass. I had uploaded it to Facebook and I have no other traces of this show. It was great and finding clips elsewhere in the internet has brought back some memories and it was a great gig as it always is with Stone Sour and it was a great night. I remember going there on the train and finding the place really early (as I always do) but I cannot find all the pic’s I would of no doubt taken.

There we go all done and dusted with the exception of the encore with a new track for me RU486 followed by the legendary Fabuless. That was it all done if you want to see the video its only on Facebook feed for the day after namely 19th June 2018 [ENJOY!].

Hollywood Vampires - 20th June 2018

Wembley Arena, London

The Darkness, The Damned

Well, I was sat at the office when Matt called me and said do you want to go to a gig an knowing that I had a pink slip from the wife just a few days beforehand to go and see Stone Sour there was no way she was going to let me spend more money and go again. So, I said my apologies and went about my day. Later Matt text me and said the tickets still here if you want to come. I would love to, but she won’t let me go. He had the perfect reply…

I’ve already spoken to her, and you are all clear. That was the quickest tidy up from work and get home as quick as possible I was changed and, in the car, before I knew it. My delay had meant we missed a fair chunk of the opening act. None other than The Damned with Captain Sensible and David Vanian.

Wembley Arena was all seater that night and our tickets were quite close to the stage with a few rows between us, so it felt like they were almost on top of us. They had already sung with Street of Dreams, Neat Neat Neat, Wait for the Blackout, and Love Song when we walked in to hear Standing on the Edge of Tomorrow. Which was followed by Ignite which is a song I knew as much as Eloise which is a Paul Ryan cover apparently. They finished their set with New Rose and Smash It Up.

The Damned (Captain Sensible on the left of stage)

Next up was The Darkness who I had seen before.

The prize for the most obvious pic titles goes to...... The Darkness

Justin and the boys were on top form. I stood and they belted out Solid Gold and Growing on Me. They were warming everything up when Justin was annoyed that many people were still sitting down. He pointed this out and everyone was up ready for Love Is Only a Feeling and Japanese Prisoner of Love.

More from The Darkness

Pic #3 (You guessed)

The boys in full flow

The passive aggressive continued after One Way Ticket when they sung Barbarian which was greeted with applause. He asked what they should play to get us going and they jokingly began playing their Christmas tune of Christmas Time Don’t Let the Bells End and some started to join in. When he swore and said no way are they playing that in June!

Blurry Justin

A less blurry Justin

They rounded out their set with three tracks the first I wasn’t overly familiar with Buccaneers of Hispaniola. Then the screamy Get Your Hands Off My Woman which was finished with a riff from Sweet Child of Mine. Finishing their time on stage they concluded with I Believe in a Thing Called Love which meant they received a warm reception which was well overdue.

The Darkness... Thank you and good night

Hollywood Vampires (the Headliners)

Then came the Hollywood Vampires which was a drinking club set up by Alice Cooper which then lent its name to a super group (if you can call them that) with Johnny Depp and Joe Perry from Aerosmith. Here they were playing a load of covers from people that had sadly died recently and they were here to pay them their respects. (and fair play to them for doing it as well.

Its just the Rock-God - Alice Cooper innit

Raise the Dead

Opening with one of their own I Want My Now and the appropriate Raise the Dead. They finally kicked in with the covers with Spirit’s I Got a Line on You and the Love cover of 7 and 7 Is.

Johnny & Chris Wyse

My Dead Drunk Friends was followed by the Doors Five to One / Break On Through (to the Other Side), which I must of liked as I took three videos of this one track.

Break on Through (1)

Break on Through (2)

Break on Through (3)

AC/DC were next with their track of The Jack. Stepping up to the mike was Chris Wyse who song the Motörhead track of Ace of Spades.

Ace of Spades

Moving on from Ace

They covered The Who’s Baba O'Riley before returning to their own As Bad as I Am and The Boogieman Surprise. It is a bit weird to say that they covered an Alice Cooper track when it was Alice Cooper singing but they did, and they did Alice proud by covering I'm Eighteen which was followed by Stop Messin' Around which was sung by Joe Perry.

People who Died

Appropriate again as they covered the Jim Carroll band with the song - People Who Died and then Aerosmith’s Sweet Emotion. Welcome to Bushwackers before Johnny Depp added to the singing credits with the David Bowie cover of Heroes. Which I have to say he did a rather good job.

Johnny Depp (honest ladies it isn't me)

Before they finished with Alice singing the Tiny Bradshaw song - The Train Kept A-Rollin'.

Another good night with good company a drive to the gig in comfort and a great surprise gig at the end of a busy day. They still had time for an encore of a solitary song of Alice’s own School's Out with balloon balls and a conclusion that morphed into Pink Floyds Another Brick in the Wall, and it was all done and thank you good night.

School's Out Part 1

School's Out Part 2 (Part 3 is later)

Knowing that this was a bit of a tribute to those that are no longer with us they did a pretty good job. The massive screen and the images shown were also good. Johnny Depp’s guitar playing was alright. Was it worthy of a packed Wembley Arena well to be honest, no. There were plenty of ladies there that would of argued the toss on that one but for me he could play but to be in a band on tour he could do with a few more lessons. It was very much a surprise gig for me and it was a fantastic night possibly made because of it. Good company from a very kind and an always happy man. I got to see Alice Cooper live on stage which then prompted me to think about buying tickets to see him again, (no I didn’t go because I couldn’t afford them!) but I wanted to go. It was all good and I would recommend them but maybe more so with Alice with his own band.

Part 3 and Wonky-cam (again) School's Out just after changing into Another Brick in the Wall.

END OF PART 4

🚩 - The Stranglers gigs have become slightly confused and some have potentially been missed from this list as well as potentially mixing them up.